Comments on: good news for all the people http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/ fruitful faith: exploring the challenge of following jesus... Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:26:20 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Dale http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-491 Dale Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:47:10 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-491 As always, the context is helpful. Thanks BC. Kingdom of God, Power and Politics. Three things that mean very different things to different Christians, aye... ;) As always, the context is helpful. Thanks BC.

Kingdom of God, Power and Politics. Three things that mean very different things to different Christians, aye… ;)

]]> By: BC http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-490 BC Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:19:32 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-490 The reference to CS Lewis was taken from a conversation he was having about whether or not a Christian Party is an effective way for Christianity to be represented in society, and in particular in the House of Commons. He was wary of Christians using the same political mechanisms as the rest of the world in achieving aims, no matter how altruistic or 'Christian' those aims were. That the way to effect Christian calling is as important as its goal. His thinking, I presume, comes from a background of the rise in socialism in the 30's, where many of the apparent Christian ideals were, in a way, being co-opted by non-Christian movements. Of course, it was a superficial co-opting, but for most, it was one effective way of sidelining Christian involvement in society. This, then, has bearing on the difference between becoming a Christian and becoming a true Christian. Much of our Christian heritage has been caught up in our culture, which was greatly shaped by a form of Christianity that was taken as genuine. The Westernisation of Christianity has been found wanting, with two world wars and the demise of colonial empires, that form of Christinisation of empire has disappeared. With it, in most people's minds, has Christianity. So too, being Christian was to a have the characteristics of Christianity, whereas being a true Christian is understanding and obeying the calling of God on the whole of life, not just a outward cultural one or just an individualistic, private spirituality. Being involved in public academic life, CS Lewis articulated well the difference between the essence and the form of Christianity. Since his time others have continued to articulate this in almost every area of human endeavour, in bringing those areas under the scrutiny of Word of God. This, together with readjusting the focus of Christian work in relation to church activity, mission and the Kingdom, the gospel requires us to reshape these as much as it requires us to reshape and re-create our world. All this I count as a political act, as true politics is the way we are organise society and administer to its needs, and not the corrupted view of politics as a process of retaining power. Underpinning all this, in fact, is the recognition of the One in whose hands true authority of political power lies. The reference to CS Lewis was taken from a conversation he was having about whether or not a Christian Party is an effective way for Christianity to be represented in society, and in particular in the House of Commons. He was wary of Christians using the same political mechanisms as the rest of the world in achieving aims, no matter how altruistic or ‘Christian’ those aims were. That the way to effect Christian calling is as important as its goal.
His thinking, I presume, comes from a background of the rise in socialism in the 30’s, where many of the apparent Christian ideals were, in a way, being co-opted by non-Christian movements. Of course, it was a superficial co-opting, but for most, it was one effective way of sidelining Christian involvement in society.
This, then, has bearing on the difference between becoming a Christian and becoming a true Christian. Much of our Christian heritage has been caught up in our culture, which was greatly shaped by a form of Christianity that was taken as genuine. The Westernisation of Christianity has been found wanting, with two world wars and the demise of colonial empires, that form of Christinisation of empire has disappeared. With it, in most people’s minds, has Christianity. So too, being Christian was to a have the characteristics of Christianity, whereas being a true Christian is understanding and obeying the calling of God on the whole of life, not just a outward cultural one or just an individualistic, private spirituality. Being involved in public academic life, CS Lewis articulated well the difference between the essence and the form of Christianity.
Since his time others have continued to articulate this in almost every area of human endeavour, in bringing those areas under the scrutiny of Word of God. This, together with readjusting the focus of Christian work in relation to church activity, mission and the Kingdom, the gospel requires us to reshape these as much as it requires us to reshape and re-create our world. All this I count as a political act, as true politics is the way we are organise society and administer to its needs, and not the corrupted view of politics as a process of retaining power.
Underpinning all this, in fact, is the recognition of the One in whose hands true authority of political power lies.

]]> By: Dale http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-489 Dale Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:34:57 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-489 BC, Good thoughts, once again. Indeed, for some, the 'Christianisation' of Rome a-la Constantine was a triumphal and 'successful' climax, but I am inclined to see it as the formalisation of a compromising trend that was snowballing for a century or more... BC and ama49, I'm curious as to what you both mean in reference to the C.S. Lewis quote. Do you mean the same thing? What is the difference (if any) between seeing someone become a 'christian' and seeing someone become a 'true christian'... And in what <i>way</i> is 'playing your part' in that seen as a 'political act'??? -d- BC,
Good thoughts, once again. Indeed, for some, the ‘Christianisation’ of Rome a-la Constantine was a triumphal and ’successful’ climax, but I am inclined to see it as the formalisation of a compromising trend that was snowballing for a century or more…

BC and ama49,
I’m curious as to what you both mean in reference to the C.S. Lewis quote. Do you mean the same thing? What is the difference (if any) between seeing someone become a ‘christian’ and seeing someone become a ‘true christian’… And in what way is ‘playing your part’ in that seen as a ‘political act’???

-d-

]]> By: ama49 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-488 ama49 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:46:22 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-488 #5 "I think it was C.S. Lewis that said something to the effect, that the greatest political act any individual Christian could do was to play their part in seeing their neighbour become a true Christian." Amen to that quote by CS Lewis! Just think if everyone would taste of the goodness of the Lord! Here's the question: how do you think we as Christians can "play the part" in seeing our neighbors become Christians? www.graceforgrace.com #5

“I think it was C.S. Lewis that said something to the effect, that the greatest political act any individual Christian could do was to play their part in seeing their neighbour become a true Christian.”

Amen to that quote by CS Lewis! Just think if everyone would taste of the goodness of the Lord!

Here’s the question: how do you think we as Christians can “play the part” in seeing our neighbors become Christians?

http://www.graceforgrace.com

]]> By: BC http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-486 BC Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:44:28 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-486 Great outline, Dale, that hints at the sad history and dilemma that has hounded Christians and their faith from the early days . . . Peter's denial and re-affirmation, Paul's struggle with the self (Roman's 7). But where did it go so apparently wrong? Was it the dislocation from main stream Jewish culture? Was it Constantine's semi-embrace of Christianity and it becoming a state religion? Was it the formalisation of doctrine through the creeds that eventually co-opted a day to day living faith? Was it the rationalisation with Greek philosophy? Was it the formulisation through rites, symbol and ritual of the medieval church? Was it the open conflict during the rise of Protestantism which helped the rise of the Enlightenment? Was it the rise of deism in reaction to Christianity being side tracked by revolutions of the late 18th century? Was it the fundamentalism that arose as a reaction to science and deism? Was in the rise in colonisation, semi-christian sects and eastern religion in the 19th century. Was it the empty drumming of liberal theology? It sounds like Christianity sided with the empire-of-the-day and to a greater extent it seems to continue to do so. So do the general public have a rightful fear of a Christianity that wishes to take over the state, a la Bishop Tamaki? Is it really Christianity or is it imperialism with a 'christian' facade? To me it is amazing that anything of the original face of Christianity has survived, and hints at the incredible power of God's Word to work out through the history of the world, in the lives or ordinary people. I think it was C.S. Lewis that said something to the effect, that the greatest political act any individual Christian could do was to play their part in seeing their neighbour become a true Christian. Great outline, Dale, that hints at the sad history and dilemma that has hounded Christians and their faith from the early days . . . Peter’s denial and re-affirmation, Paul’s struggle with the self (Roman’s 7).
But where did it go so apparently wrong? Was it the dislocation from main stream Jewish culture? Was it Constantine’s semi-embrace of Christianity and it becoming a state religion? Was it the formalisation of doctrine through the creeds that eventually co-opted a day to day living faith? Was it the rationalisation with Greek philosophy? Was it the formulisation through rites, symbol and ritual of the medieval church? Was it the open conflict during the rise of Protestantism which helped the rise of the Enlightenment? Was it the rise of deism in reaction to Christianity being side tracked by revolutions of the late 18th century? Was it the fundamentalism that arose as a reaction to science and deism? Was in the rise in colonisation, semi-christian sects and eastern religion in the 19th century. Was it the empty drumming of liberal theology?
It sounds like Christianity sided with the empire-of-the-day and to a greater extent it seems to continue to do so. So do the general public have a rightful fear of a Christianity that wishes to take over the state, a la Bishop Tamaki? Is it really Christianity or is it imperialism with a ‘christian’ facade?
To me it is amazing that anything of the original face of Christianity has survived, and hints at the incredible power of God’s Word to work out through the history of the world, in the lives or ordinary people.
I think it was C.S. Lewis that said something to the effect, that the greatest political act any individual Christian could do was to play their part in seeing their neighbour become a true Christian.

]]> By: Dale http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-485 Dale Sun, 06 Apr 2008 01:55:59 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-485 Thanks Jack! :) -d- Thanks Jack!
:)
-d-

]]> By: Jack http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-484 Jack Sat, 05 Apr 2008 19:58:31 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-484 No question nor criticism comes to mind Dale - and that's something for me ; ). Great post. No question nor criticism comes to mind Dale – and that’s something for me ; ). Great post.

]]> By: Points of interest « Mind, Soul, and Body http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-483 Points of interest « Mind, Soul, and Body Sat, 05 Apr 2008 16:30:29 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-483 [...] Fruitful faith, Dale has an excellent discussion of Faith and influence. I would say he has an excellent grasp on the what Christianity was and should [...] [...] Fruitful faith, Dale has an excellent discussion of Faith and influence. I would say he has an excellent grasp on the what Christianity was and should [...]

]]> By: Christian Times » Blog Archive » good news for all the people http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/2008/04/03/good-news-for-all-the-people/#comment-482 Christian Times » Blog Archive » good news for all the people Thu, 03 Apr 2008 09:37:06 +0000 http://fruitfulfaith.wordpress.com/?p=109#comment-482 [...] Hayhurst [...] [...] Hayhurst [...]

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